ינואר 24, 2024

update on taxon names and old pictures, Noctuoidea & Geometroidea "project"

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PROJECT: to add geographical distribution (type locations) and historical pictures of the "macro" moths, with emphasis on Neotropical region, but also Oriental tropics, African tropics and Central Palearctic regions, with emphasis on Noctuidae and Geometridae

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work in progress: I am trying to cover palaearctic Noctuidae (Noctuoidea). Sources will be listed here, but they are the same for all Noctuidae:
(1) for Russian Federation and Crimea: Catalogue of the Lepidoptera of Russia 2019 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338865579_Catalogue_of_the_Lepidoptera_of_Russia
Remarks: (a) Krasnoyarsk krai, most observations are from far South, (b) Sakha-Yakutia, most observations are from South
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(2) for Ukraine: The Noctuids of Ukraine 2006, Zoya Klutchko http://ashipunov.info/shipunov/school/books/kljuchko2006_sovki_ukrainy.djvu
Remarks: (a) Crimaea is mostly taken from ref (1)
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(3) for Europe (and some Near East, North Africa and Central Asia) www.lepiforum.de . As the website was in June 2021. Combining this with information from The Lepidoptera of Europe 1996 by Karsholt & Razowski. Remarks: (a) "Yugoslavia"; if the rest of the distribution is in W, N or Central Europe, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia is taken. If it's E or SE Europe, nothing is selected unless there is specific evidence of location.
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(4) for Belarus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lepidoptera_of_Belarus#Noctuidae
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(5) for Korea: Revised List of the Korean Noctuoidea Based on Latest Classification 2016
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350451576_Kim_et_al_Revised_List_Korea_2016-17
Remarks: (a) always South and North Korea selected. (b) cannot find the annotations which are sometimes placed in front of a name
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(6) for Japan: internet checklist (as of June 2021) http://listmj.mothprog.com/
distribution information from http://www.jpmoth.org/~dmoth/80_Noctuidae/framepage_noctuidae.html
this sometimes includes SE Asia (India - Papua)
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(7) for Greenland, Iceland and Faroe islands: wikipedia (as of June 2021)
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(8) for Israel, North Africa: The Noctuinae of Israel 2006
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Noctuinae-of-Israel(Lepidoptera%3A-Noctuidae)-Kravchenko-Fibiger/360d49c72fd4a60c84f76312e75288b43bdcc9e2

and The Lepidoptera of Israel, Vol. 2 Noctuidae, 2007, Vasiliy D. Kravchenko, Michael Fibiger, Axel Hausmann, Günter C. Müller
sometimes includes Near East and Central Asia
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(9) for Caucasus, Central Asia: Noctuidae Fauna of the Caucasus Region 2008
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269990747_Noctuidae_Fauna_of_the_Caucasus_Region_Lepidoptera
includes information on North Africa, Near East, Middle East
info on Macedonia, Moldova and Belarus
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added all remaining Noctuoidea from ref (1)
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added what was previously part of Noctuidae and has now moved to Erebidae from ref (2)
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added all remaining Noctuoidea from ref (5)
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(10) for Mongolia: several publications, including Check-list of Macroheterocera (Insecta, Lepidoptera) collected in 2019 in Mongolia by Russian entomological expeditions 2020
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347766969_Check-list_of_Macroheterocera_Insecta_Lepidoptera_collected_in_2019_in_Mongolia_by_Russian_entomological_expeditions
and New contribution to the knowledge of the Macrolepidoptera fauna of Mongolia (Lepidoptera: Hesperiidae, Lycaenidae, Noctuidae, Nymphalidae, Pieridae) 2009
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281441931_New_contribution_to_the_knowledge_of_the_Macrolepidoptera_fauna_of_Mongolia_Lepidoptera_Hesperiidae_Lycaenidae_Noctuidae_Nymphalidae_Pieridae
and Contributions to the knowledge of the Macrolepidoptera fauna of Mongolia 2006
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281442020_Contributions_to_the_knowledge_of_the_Macrolepidoptera_fauna_of_Mongolia
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(11) for Kazakhstan: several publications, including Noctuoid moths (Lepidoptera: Erebidae, Nolidae, Noctuidae) of North-East
Kazakhstan (Pavlodar Region) 2017
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317332878_Noctuoid_moths_Lepidoptera_Erebidae_Nolidae_Noctuidae_of_North-East_Kazakhstan_Pavlodar_Region
Checklist of Noctuid Moths (Lepidoptera: Noctuidae and Erebidae Excluding Lymantriinae and Arctiinae) from the Saur Mountains (East Kazakhstan and North-East China) 2016
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305867820_CHECK_LIST_OF_NOCTUID_MOTHS_LEPIDOPTERA_NOCTUIDAE_AND_EREBIDAE_EXCLUDING_LYMANTRIINAE_AND_ARCTIINAE_FROM_THE_SAUR_MOUNTAINS_EAST_KAZAKHSTAN_AND_NORTH-EAST_CHINA
To Research of Noctuoidea Fauna (Lepidoptera)
of the Western Kazakhstan 2016
https://www.zobodat.at/publikation_articles.php?id=269230
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added all remaining Noctuoidea from ref (3)
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added all remaining Noctuoidea from ref (4)
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(a) picture source for missing Noctuidae pictures: copyright-free scans of Seitz, The Macrolepidoptera of the world, 1912 ff, Vol.3 (modified from https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/61923)
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(b) picture sources for missing Noctuidae pictures: copyright-free scans of
Butler, Lepidoptera Heterocera Brit. Museum vols.I-VII, 1877-1889,
Hampson, Lepidoptera Heterocera Brit. Museum vols.VIII-IX 1891-1893 and
Hampson, Lepidoptera Phalaenae Brit. Museum vols IV-XI 1903-1912
(modified from https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org)
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(12) for India: A checklist of Noctuidae (Insect: Lepidoptera: Noctuoidea) of India 2012
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257923069_A_checklist_of_Noctuidae_Insect_Lepidoptera_Noctuoidea_of_India
[critical remark: be aware that these scientific names are the ones from the Hampson era, taxonomy probably 100 years old, I am searching and replacing nearly 90% of the names. Contains species described up to Hampson only, ca 1912; there is no regional distribution information and very few references]
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(13) for India: A checklist of subfamily Arctiinae (Erebidae : Noctuoidea : Lepidoptera) from India, J.Singh, N. Singh, R. Joshi, 2014
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339125264_A_checklist_of_subfamily_Arctiinae_Erebidae_Noctuoidea_Lepidoptera_from_India
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(c) picture sources for missing Arctiinae (Noctuoidea) pictures: copyright-free scans of
Hampson Lepidoptera Phalaenae Brit. Museum Arctiidae I-III 1898-1901
Hampson Lepidoptera Phalaenae Brit. Museum Arctiidae suppl I-II 1915 & 1920
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(14) geographical distribution info for Central Asia, China, Himalayas mostly from https://ftp.funet.fi/index/Tree_of_life/insecta/lepidoptera/ (Markku Savela) and for North Africa / Sahara mostly from www.afromoths.net (Willy De Prins)
as of September to December 2021
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(15) geographical distribution of African Lepidoptera (only moths) from
http://www.afromoths.net/
(as of December 2021)
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(16) geographical distribution of European Lepidoptera (except UK, Ireland and Russia) from
https://lepiforum.org/
(as of December 2021)
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(17) checklist of the UK for all Lepidoptera from https://ukmoths.org.uk/systematic-list/
as of December 2021
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added all remaining Lepidoptera from (1), but only to Russia checklist. Not yet by region....
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(18) added all Geometridae species of the former Soviet Union from
Viidalepp J., 1996. Checklist of the Geometridae (Lepidoptera) of the former U.S.S.R.
(I am afraid there may now be some duplicate names for the same species, because I didn't have time to search for each one in the literature)
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(19) added Saarland, Germany checklist from https://www.delattinia.de/Verbreitungskarten/Schmetterlinge
compiled by Andreas Werno (as of December 2021, updated till 2020)
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(20) added Tajikistan checklist from "Annotated catalog of Noctuoidea of ​​Tajikistan" (Radjabova, Matov, 2020, in Russian) and Faunistical records and annotations for a better knowledge of the Tajikistani moth and butterfly fauna (Babics, Balint, Benedek, 2021)
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(22) added Thailand checklist from "Moths of Thailand Vol. 3, Part 2. Noctuoidea. An illustrated Catalogue of Erebidae, Nolidae, Euteliidae and Noctuidae (Insecta, Lepidoptera) in Thailand" (Kononenko, Pinratana 2013). Lymantriinae from "Checklist of insects of Thailand" Vol.22 (Chaweewan Hutacharern et al. 2011)
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(23) added Borneo checklist (Malaysia+Indonesia) from "The moths of Borneo" (18 volumes, Holloway 1983 ff) website as of December 2021
https://www.mothsofborneo.com/part-2/checklist-part2.php
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(24) added Taiwan checklist from "Catalog of Life in Taiwan" as of January 2022
https://taibnet.sinica.edu.tw/home_eng.php
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(25) just names from "A global checklist of the Bombycoidea (Insecta: Lepidoptera)" 2018
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323127567_A_global_checklist_of_the_Bombycoidea_Insecta_Lepidoptera/link/5a8295f9a6fdcc6f3ead8c44/download
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(26) added Arctiini of the Amazon area from "Arctiini Leach, 1815 of the
Brazilian Amazon." parts I, II, III, IV, V by Teston and Ferro, 2016-2020
https://www.researchgate.net/search.Search.html?type=publication&query=Arctiini%20Leach,%20[1815]%20(Lepidoptera,%20Erebidae,%20Arctiinae)%20of%20the%20%20Brazilian%20Amazon
pictures from Hampson, Rothschild or Seitz mostly (some from Cramer, Felder, Möschler, Oberthür, Schaus, Herrich-Schäffer and Hübner)
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(27) added Antillles checklist according to https://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Antilles/AntillesChecklist.shtml (as of March 2022)
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(d) picture source for missing moth pictures: copyright-free scans of Druce, 1891-1900, Biologia Centrali-Americana, Insecta, Lepidoptera-Heterocera (modified from https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/14625#page/1/mode/1up)
Gepostet von dir vor fast 2 Jahre

(28) added Geometridae worldwide from an updated list by Scoble, M.J. & A. Hausmann [updated 2007]: Online list of valid and available names of the Geometridae of the World http://www.herbulot.de/globalspecieslist.htm
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(e) added all missing macro moth pictures from Hübner-Geyer (Sammlung exotischer Schmettlinge vol.1+2, Zuträge) 1806-1818
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/44052#page/5/mode/thumb
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/43837#page/11/mode/1up
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/45768#page/5/mode/thumb
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(f) added all missing macro moth pictures from Herrich-Schäffer (Sammlung neuer oder wenig bekannter ausereuropäischer Schmetterlinge) 1850-1858
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/105037#page/7/mode/1up
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(g) added all missing macro moth pictures from Felder-Rogenhofer (Reise der österreichischen Fregatte Novara um die Erde, vol 2, part 2) 1864-1867
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/16568#page/9/mode/1up
(micro lepidoptera, plates 134-140 not done)
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(h) added all missing macro moth pictures from Guenée, 1857 ; Hist. nat. Ins., Spec. gén. Lépid., vols. 5-10, Atlas (Noctuelites, Phalénites, Siculides):
https://archive.org/details/histoirenaturell00bois/page/n31/mode/2up
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(29) added Thailand checklist from A.Ö.Kocak & Muhabbet Kemal, Lepidoptera of Thailand, Cesa News, Nr.60, 14.Nov 2010
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307768936_Lepidoptera_of_Thailand (all Lepidoptera, no new species names generated on iNat)
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(30) added Central Asian Lepidoptera (Geometridae, Noctuoidea) from Siberian Zoological Museum website (as of October 2022)
http://szmn.eco.nsc.ru/Lepidop/Lepidopt.htm
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(31) added India Geometridae from "Moths of India" website (as of Nov 2, 2022)
https://www.mothsofindia.org/geometridae
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(32) adjusting Geometridae taxonomy according to
Rajaei, H., Hausmann, A., Scoble, M., Wanke, D., Plotkin, D., Brehm, G., Murillo-Ramos, L. & Sihvonen, P. (2022): An online taxonomic facility of Geometridae (Lepidoptera), with an overview of global species richness and systematics. Integrative Systematics, 5 (2): 145-192. https://doi.org/10.18476/2022.577933
https://geometroidea.smns-bw.org/geometridae/Catalogue/
(January 6 till March 13, 2023)
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(33) Geometridae distribution in Russia, taken from "Catalogue of the Lepidoptera of Russia", version 2.2 of 10.06.2022
https://www.zin.ru/publications/books/Lepidoptera_Russia/Catalogue_of_the_Lepidoptera_of_Russia_ver.2.2.pdf
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(34) Geometridae distribution in China, taken from "List of Chinese Insects", Vol.III, Hua Li-zhong, printed by Sun Yat-sen University Press, Guangzhou 2005, pages 98-151
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(35) Moth distribution in Latin America, taken from Bernal & Martínez, „Polillas de Colombia“, 2023, pages 38-647
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(36) Lepidoptera distribution for continental USA and Canada taken from MPG (moth photographers group) website. State checklists as of August 3rd-4th 2023. http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/species_list.php?state=#11003.1
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(37) Lepidoptera checklists for New Guinea (entire island) taken from Papua Insect Foundation website https://www.papua-insects.nl/insect%20orders/Lepidoptera/Lepidoptera%20families.htm
Note: Geometroidea and Noctuoidea (except Notodontidae) are completely done, as on the website on August 17, 2023. For all the other moth families, just the species which already existed on iNat have been added to the checklists. Papua barat, Papua (Indonesia) and Papua-New Guinea have been grouped as a unit. The website in work in progress, i.e., Noctuidae incomplete.
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(38) Switzerland: checklists for cantons according to CSCF database, Neuchatel, accessed Aug 24, 2023
https://lepus.unine.ch/tab/index.php?groupe=CAPTLEP&TypeRequete=ListeEspece&TypeUnite=canton&canton=ZH
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(39) completing Noctuidae species worldwide according to Markku Savela's compilation at
https://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/noctuoidea/noctuidae/index.html
(March 13 till October, 2023)
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(i) picture source for missing Geometridae pictures: copyright-free scans of Seitz, The Macrolepidoptera of the world, 1912 ff, Vol.4 and supplement Vol.4; Vol.8 (except USA/Canada); Vol.12 (except Australia/NZ); Vol.16
(modified from https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/61923)
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(40) completing what previously was "Noctuids", but now mostly is Erebidae (except Arctiinae, Lymantriinae, Herminiinae, Hypeninae, Hypenodinae, but including Euteliidae and Nolidae), all species worldwide according to Markku Savela's compilation at https://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/noctuoidea/erebidae/
(October 2023 till January, 2024)
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(j) picture source for missing Noctuidae & part of Erebidae pictures: copyright-free scans of Seitz, The Macrolepidoptera of the world, 1919 ff, Vol.7
(modified from https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/61923)
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הועלה ב-ינואר 24, 2024 09:09 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 0 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

נובמבר 10, 2023

Lepidoptera - taxonomy status on iNaturalist

... a quick update on how many butterfly and moth taxa are currently available on iNaturalist. Very many of these do not (yet) have any observations, particularly the ones from tropical regions. To do count species, I downloaded the entire taxon tree via DWCA export (https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/inaturalist-taxonomy.dwca.zip (file dated Nov 1st, 2023). The scientific names are in a very large file which I needed to split into smaller portions. Then I extracted Lepidoptera, but only species currently considered available. Note: there may be some unintentional duplication and taxa in debate. The result were 148,208 species worldwide, as compared to an estimated 180,000 described species of Lepidoptera. A family by family comparison gave the following results:

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Erebidae 22,353 25,000 89 %
Geometridae 24,041 23,000 105 %
Noctuidae 16,890 11,772 143 % --> estimated species # seems too low
Tortricidae 7,416 11,500 64 %
Crambidae 7,986 10,487 76 %
Nymphalidae 6,221 6,000 104 %
Lycaenidae 4,805 6,000 80 %
Pyralidae 4,329 6,000 72 %
Gelechiidae 4,007 4,700 85 %
Hesperiidae 3,926 4,100 96 %
Notodontidae 3,459 3,800 91 %
Oecophoridae 1,815 3,150 58 %
Saturniidae 3,576 2,300 155 % --> (not sure why this is)
Depressariidae 1,179 2,300 51 %
Lasiocampidae 1,559 2,130 73 %
Tineidae 1,795 2,000 90 %
Gracillariidae 1,780 2,000 89 %
Limacodidae 1,436 1,800 80 %
Nolidae 2,149 1,700 126 %
Cosmopterigidae 1,242 1,540 81 %
Riodinidae 1,430 1,532 93 %
Sphingidae 1,825 1,450 126 %
Lecithoceridae 722 1,430 50 %
Psychidae 959 1,350 71 %
Pterophoridae 1,200 1,292 93 %
Xyloryctidae 330 1,200 28 %
Pieridae 1,190 1,100 108 %
Coleophoridae 1,142 1,000 114 %
Sesiidae 1,101 1,000 110 %
Zygaenidae 723 1,000 72 %
etc.

complete list at https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/334115363/original.jpg

הועלה ב-נובמבר 10, 2023 12:31 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 0 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

ספטמבר 13, 2023

battery operated moth lights, examples

in the last few days I did a quick comparison of low-cost UV light sources and here are the results:

All set-ups will allow use in remote locations for an entire night. The cheap options may not be weather proof, be careful! And, do not look directly into those UV LED lights! Better wear glasses!

"A" flashlight, used at reduced light output setting, without purple filter, uses internal rechargeable battery, ca 28€
"B" UV glue hardening LED, on flexible arm, with clamp, used with a 10Ah power bank, ca 9 + 17€
"C" purple LED strip, used with a 10Ah power bank, ca 18 + 17€ (LED strip comes as a set of two)
"D" LepiLED, standard version, used with a 30Ah power bank, ca 435 + 60€, weather proof

Lepidoptera found

"A" 13 and 8 species (2 different nights), few hornets only
"B" 8 species, many hornets, quite aggressive
"C" 14 and 9 species (2 different nights), no hornets at all
"D" 19 species, many hornets, mostly sitting in groups

הועלה ב-ספטמבר 13, 2023 09:38 לפנה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | תגובה 1 | הוספת תגובה

ינואר 14, 2022

Noctuoidea - geographical distribution

הועלה ב-ינואר 14, 2022 05:16 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 3 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

אוקטובר 5, 2021

Switzerland 2021

sometimes, the light trap is placed in dramatic landscape



The light trap can be seen on the last picture, lower right, protected by a pile of stones
Steingletscher, Sustenpass, Switzerland
October 3, 2021

הועלה ב-אוקטובר 5, 2021 08:08 לפנה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 0 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

to do

(this is not actually meant to be for the public, but I cannot find another space here to place it privately)

(Museum Luzern, Sammlung M.Zurmühle, Zygaenidae, Psychidae, ev Papilionoidea)

lit suchen für Faunistik
India, Iran, South America
(focus on biodiversity hotspots: Amazon, Indonesia, Congo)

alte Abbildungen (copyright-free)
Seitz, vols 11, 15 and perhaps Arctiinae from vols 6, 10, 14
Hampson, Butler, Walker etc (NHM)
Hübner, Cramer, Felder, Möschler, Schaus, Guenee, Herrich-Schäffer, Oberthür

Museum Witt http://www.insecta-web.org/cgi-bin/MWM/db_typen/display.pl?fam=all&tname=order
Sweden http://www2.nrm.se/en/lep_nrm/a/lepa.html
Russia https://www.zin.ru/collections/Lepidoptera/catalog.html?taxon_id=1036942867877076&page=1

Noctuidae Europaeae, vols 1-12, Fibiger et al., 1990-2010
List of Chinese Insects, vol.III, Hua Li-zhong, 2005

הועלה ב-אוקטובר 5, 2021 07:46 לפנה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz

ינואר 8, 2021

some info about the tags I am using

Uploaded observations 1970-1995 may be without photos, or with photos of collection specimens. But they are all my own, and referring to the observation of a live animal. Whenever possible, I used labels for light sources and high altitudes.

elevation 2800-3000m
elevation 2600-2800m
elevation 2400-2600m
elevation 2200-2400m
elevation 2000-2200m

label (in German).............. = (in English)

superaktinische Röhre.......superactinic tube
Mischlicht.............................self ballasted Mercury lamp
Hg-Lampe.............................Mercury lamp
Petromax...............................pressurized kerosene lamp
Heath trap
UV-LEDs
UV-Energiesparlampe........UV energy saving bulb
ETH Lichtfalle (Hg).............light trap, operated by Entomology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH)
Pheromonfalle......................phereomone trap
Strassenbeleuchtung..........street lights
Beob 23 24 01......................Observation time 23 to 01 o'clock
Beob ( 20 21 ) 22 23...........Light on from 20 to 23 o'clock, personal attendance only 22-23 o'clock

If you see the label "date shift -1day" that means that the date is correct, but this part of the night traditionally is counted to the previous date. This is important for time series and night-to-night comparisons. A moth seen 5 minutes before midnight and the same moth seen 5 minutes after midnight should be only one observation! Not sure how to solve this in iNat...

הועלה ב-ינואר 8, 2021 08:42 לפנה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 2 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

ינואר 7, 2021

2015 ff self ballasted Mercury lamp with sheet

this is the set currently in use. Located under a balcony, in a corner such that neighbors cannot directly see the bulb. The light is on the sheet, but also in a 60 degree angle towards a South facing slope with dry grassland which I established in my back yard. In about 30m distance the forest starts. The stand was home made from water piping, cable and lamp holder. The side arm was used to hold an umbrella to protect the lamp from rain. WARNING: I am wearing glasses! Protect your eyes and don't look into the light!

sometimes, I use UV LEDs in addition, to attract micro lepidoptera to a specific location near the bottom of the sheet. here shown with the Mercury lamp off

הועלה ב-ינואר 7, 2021 03:18 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 0 תגובות | הוספת תגובה

1970 ff logbooks

this is my first logbook from 1970. Just a few pages shown. I used logbooks mainly 1970-95. Most of the information is now in iNat, with the exception of dubious identifications without a corresponding specimen in the collection.



in later years, the logbook became more organised and later it was based on single sheets





in 1978/79 I was programming at ETH Zurich and had access to its mainframe computer. I entered all observations on punch cards (IBM) and had the sorted output printed on a chain printer. It's a massive pile, I still have a copy of the 256 pages output. Lost the 12,800 punchcards (7 boxes).

הועלה ב-ינואר 7, 2021 03:11 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | תגובה 1 | הוספת תגובה

1975-78 summer job at ETH research station

I was jobbing in Zuoz, maintaining pheromone and light traps for the "Lärchenwickler" Zeiraphera project, under guidance of Dr. W.Baltensweiler. Instead of a salary I got free access to a VW minivan and Mercury lights. I also evaluated light traps in high mountain locations for Noctuidae moths

typical set of Mercury lights, bedsheet and generator used in the Engadin, Vintschgau, Val Müstair, Poschiavo and Bregaglia

an example of an ETH light trap, this one was used on Julier pass during Summers 1975/76

הועלה ב-ינואר 7, 2021 03:06 אחה"צ על ידי amzamz amzamz | 2 תגובות | הוספת תגובה